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 Your Guide To Refining

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Posts : 47
Join date : 2011-07-23
Age : 37
Location : Colorado (USA)

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Your Guide To Refining Empty
PostSubject: Your Guide To Refining   Your Guide To Refining EmptyTue Aug 09, 2011 8:30 am

The clapalong refining "guide" is mostly a bunch of crappy information, that gives you a vague idea of refining, and some names of alchemist levels that no one cares about.

I would link it from here to get you started but its easier to explain refining from scratch.

    Refining begins at Assembly Level 82... well actually when your Alchemy Lab reaches level 82.
    At this point in the game you will have a tough decision on whether to get to 85 and level your 2nd training ground or to focus on your alchemy lab first. It's up to you... if you have high level friends then you probably want the lab first (you can piggy back on their uber refines explained later). If you are on the cutting edge of a new server or if no one likes you (hehe), then you prolly want to get the training ground first... at least to level 40 or 60 or so.

    Ok so once your Lab hits level 82 you can refine... 10 times per day you risk a small amount of drachmas to get a larger amount of drachmas (the "stones" mentioned in the clapalong guide are just for roleplay purposes).

Refining Interface:
    The refine interface blows... its confusing and inefficient. When you press refine you will see two buttons: "Joint Refining" and "Assemble Group". Sounds like the same thing to you? Well it does to me too. Here is what they really mean:

    • Joint Refining = host refining group
    • Assemble Group = join someone else's group

    There is also a 'nifty' bug with the refining interface... if you create a group and then don't actually refine, you can become unable to join legion/garden... if that happens to you, reload your browser and go to refining and make sure you arent in a refining group.

Alchemist Level:
    As you refine your alchemist levels up. Your alchemist level cannot exceed the level of your Lab minus 80... so at lab level 82 your alchmist can get to level 2 + 99% of level 3. At this point he will stop getting XP until you level your lab. The white message will begin to appear at level 2 + 0% but you still have some time until you stop gaining xp. When you reach level 11 refining, instead of your alchemist going to level 11, you will get a second alchemist that is level 1. There is really no difference except that you can transform each alchemist separately (read on for more on that). Same goes for level 21 (a third alchemist).

    Success or fail, he will get the same amount of experience on each refine. The highest level of item you can HOST for a refine is the same as your alchemist level (or the sum of your alchemist levels after level 10). You can join any level refine hosted by someone else. At level 5 and 10 your alchemist will get a "permanent" special bonus. It is not really permanent because you can "transform" or "renascence" your alchemist when he reaches level 10. When you transform your alchemist he returns to level 1, which clears his special bonuses, and allows different random ones when you relevel him. Releveling an alchemist is much faster than the first time around but it will still hurt your profit for a few days unless u have a higher level friend host.

The bonuses you can get are simple. You can get a +3/5 to success, a +3/5 to transmute, or a +1 level.

  • Success effects your group's success rate during refining. The exact forumula for success is complicated but suffice to say +3 doesn't necessarily translate to +3%.

  • Transmute is when you get 2 items to "sell" instead of 1. A successful transmute results in more than double the profit because you only pay the refining cost once, while you get the sale price twice. This becomes obvious when you have items that cost 10k to refine and sell for 20k. A 2x proc in this case would result in 20k +20k - 10k = 30k profit... or triple. The displayed transmute percentage means "this percentage of successful refines will be transmutes". With a hypothetical 50% success and 50% transmute for a certain refine, 1/4 of your refines would be transmutes, 1/4 normal, and 2/4 failures (panaceas calculated separately... those are explained later, but can also cause extra profit or a failure).

  • +Level lets you refine items beyond the level of your alchemist(s). This is only useful for the host of the refine, but very useful indeed. Being able to refine level 21 or level 22 at level 100 is a huge boon.

What are the best bonuses?:
    In a perfect world, your host has +1 level on each of his alchemists, and everyone else has +5 bonuses that get your success up to around 100% and get transmute % up as high as possible. This means if you are refining a "high risk" item, you will want more +success and if you are refining low risk items you want more +transmute. Really either way is fine, but i believe +success on high risk items to be slightly more effective at high level refines overall, but once you hit 100%, additional +success is useless. While +transmute is always helpful. Unless you are always refining with the same people, it's difficult to say which is better, so in general, anything +5 is good, or +1 level if you host refines.

    As far as I can tell, your alchemist always starts with two +3 bonuses. +5 success/transmute and +1 level are only available after you transform/renascence your alchemist.

Group Refining:
    When you refine you always form a group of up to 3 people... but you can launch with just 1/3 if you like and go solo. Refining with others provides 3 benefits (and 1 drawback).

    1. Level: a lower level player can refine much more profitable items if a higher level player hosts a refine for them.
    2. Alchemist Bonuses: the alchemist bonuses (+success and +transmute) are added together from each person who joins the refine. This is particularly useful for high risk items. You can bring that pesky 50% success gold powder up to 80% or more in a group.
    3. Armenia Trader: If you have the Armenia Trader active your profit is increased by a little bit simply by grouping with others.

    • Drawback: The one drawback to refining in a group is that you take a slight penalty on your success rate. This is usually cancelled out by alchemist bonuses, but for alchemists below level 5 without bonuses, you will notice your success % go down slightly when they join the group.

Traders and Panaceas:
  • A Panacea is an additional chance to increase your profit... I've read that it is x4, but I see variances so *shrug*. Doesn't really matter the exact amount,;panacea makes u a lot of money! If you proc a panacea and a transmute be 6 times profit or higher. A panacea also has a chance to explode however. When this happens many people (including myself) cry IRL, because not only did u not get your amazing profits, you get nothing at all. There are traders that can increase your chances of getting a panacea and decrease your chance it will explode. Traders can also give many other bonuses to your refining.

  • You can see what traders you have active by clicking on the "Guild" button from your level 82+ Alchemy Lab. You can gather traders by sending caravans to other people with level 82+ Alchemy Labs. At each winter the traders you have are reset and you are given one trader as your apprentice. This free trader has a red border around him, and is the trader people gain when they send you a caravan. It is customary to put your trader along with the year in your signature so people know what trader they will gain by sending you a caravan. Many servers also store this information in shared spreadsheets. In addition to sending caravans to obtain traders, you can also purchase traders with gold (this might require a VIP level... if so it's no higher than 2). All the traders are good but the most useful are those dealing with panacea... hence why the Germanic trader is 30g, though without the "fewer explosion" traders, he could actually decrease your profits. If you decide to buy a trader... do it during winter right after your traders have reset and you can keep it for the next 4 days.

Area Price:
  • The "Price Level" of each city changes every 30 minutes very similarly to how crop prices change. Most people call this the "Area Price" or AP. You want this % to be as high as possible. I believe the highest it goes is 150%. This is very rare however. Usually it will turn around somewhere in the 120%, and sometimes you are lucky to see it in the 140% range. I reccomend only refining on 120% or better. If you are around a lot you can wait for an even better price, but if you end up soloing it might not be worth it. (especially at higher levels when people have lots of bonuses). One thing to be careful of for area price is that a lot of people might want to move to the same city at the same time. If you are worried about starting an Area Battle (that is... you don't want to start one) then you need to keep each city down to less than 5 people (so, no more than 4). Double check the city you are moving to RIGHT before you move. The refining buddies u just found might be moving to the same place.

Protection Cooldown:
  • You cannot refine while under protection. This is to give you a shot to hit someone while they move to a vulnerable city to refine. Generally you are ok to move to a city and get your refining done (takes 25 minutes) and THEN put up your ceasefire. At most you will probably only get attacked once during this time. If you get attacked or accidentally put up your ceasefire you will not be able to refine until you attack someone or wait until protection ends.

City Ownership:
  • You can also not refine in enemy cities. This would be either a cultural city not owned by you, or a city that was once owned by your faction but now is not, and you chose to stay there. This encourages people to eventually move out of a city you have just taken, and gives a small reason to own the cultural centers. (Area Traits guide coming soon).

One Note About Mercury:
    The mercury bonus is +1 level. This is particularly useful when you cross a threshold of 10... meaning 11 is a much better refine than 10, and 21 is a much better refine than 20, because without mercury a +21 refine is only available to people who have finished tartarus and gotten level 101. But only your refining host needs the mercury bonus... if everyone in the group has mercury then its really a big waste. Talk to the people you usually refine with before you decide what bonuses to go for.

Last edited by Admin on Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:48 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Your Guide To Refining Empty
PostSubject: Re: Your Guide To Refining   Your Guide To Refining EmptyTue Aug 09, 2011 9:13 am

Very nice guide.

To people from Avengers or Simpsons reading this, in your respective league forums you can also find spreadsheets of players and their current traders. You are encouraged to update this every winter to make it easy for everyone to get as many different traders as possible.
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